irc.ac.za mistreated by routing?!?

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groop
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irc.ac.za mistreated by routing?!?

Postby groop » Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:45 am

irc.ac.za passes trial period.

- This South Africa based server is out of its trial period now,
- which was 3months, and has permanent link status to EFnet.
- The server is open to all clients connecting from Africa.
- Welcome aboard.

Question. Is this FACTual? I've heard from a very close source
to irc.ac.za that the trial period was extended. I am an EFNet
veteran for over 10 years.. and am online almost 16/24 hours
a day (sick eh?) and haven't noticed but once.. it dropping and THAT (from my inside source) was a re-route.

If a server passes the initial trial period, why would it be extended? this is something new to me.. as almost every server that passes a trial. is now PERMANENT. So, why the extension for irc.ac.za? sounds like efnet politics to me as this is totaly out of the norm. I think irc.ac.za has proven itself beyond EFNet expectations. EFNet polictics ensures my comment on this matter to be forwarded to /dev/null/. However, i think it's unfair and bias to say the least. The server has proven to be stable.. as for the routing committee, i'm ashamed to say.. has not.

All on the routing committee.. do you duty to do whats best for EFNet. My home network. we need stable servers and irc.ac.za has proved more than stable and effective beside being the 1st .za server in the history of efnet.

rethink you politics and get the routing board to come to their senses. do whats right and give irc.ac.za what they derserve. a full unconditional link!

Sincerely,

groop
William S. gregory
#EFNet
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deww
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Postby deww » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:35 am

I do not or claim to know what happened or if this is true. Did you go ahead and ask the server administrator to verify this and what the reason was? If not, don't go screaming unfair. IF there's a need to extend a trial, there's a good chance something happened that resulted in the need. Perhaps it is what you said about the re-route that would require, rather, would make more sense to extend the trial to make sure the link is good. Correct? I agree that they seem to be pretty good too, why worry about it still being in trial? Besides, it really isn't any of my business, besides enjoying the fact that we have more solid EF-Net servers.
groop
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Postby groop » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:50 am

yes.. this information has come str8 from the horses mouth.. and from what i picked up out this conversation.. nothing outta the norm has happened.. except for this extention. i for one.. couldn't possibly see why an extention would be put in order, after the trial was over. IF the staff/admin/server done something wrong within the trial period. would that not be a reason to vote no after the trial. even tho this wasn't said by anyone from irc.ca.za.. i feel irc.ca.za is now a victom of EFNet politics. how, when.. why, i couldn't guess as i am not on the routing board. but.. something defintily sounds fishy. i know, nothing can be done about it.. as it's up to the routing committee.

1) the server has PROVEN to be stable
2) all admins/opers have shown complete hospitality to users
3) and it's the 1st *.za server ever
4) /luser count is substantial

now tell me why? again.. it's EFNet politics.. plain and simple.
someones looked at one of the members incorrectly and as a result.. well, this is it. an extenstion for absolutly no reason.

that was metaphore about the "looking at someone incorrectly"

somthing isn't right about this process.. plain and simple

groop
William S. Gregory
#EFnet
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password = "asifiwould";
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Hardy
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Re: irc.ac.za mistreated by routing?!?

Postby Hardy » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:11 am

groop wrote:irc.ac.za passes trial period.

- This South Africa based server is out of its trial period now,
- which was 3months, and has permanent link status to EFnet.
- The server is open to all clients connecting from Africa.
- Welcome aboard.
Yes, it got a permanent link after an extended trial. This isnt the fist time in efnet`s history this has happend. The reasons for an extended trial is usually that the admin community is not sure if its the right addition for the network and want to give it some more time.
groop wrote:Question. Is this FACTual? I've heard from a very close source to irc.ac.za that the trial period was extended. I am an EFNet
veteran for over 10 years.. and am online almost 16/24 hours
a day (sick eh?) and haven't noticed but once.. it dropping and THAT (from my inside source) was a re-route.
Yes, its a fact. Trial for irc.ac.za was extended by a month to ensure that this server was the right addition for the network. When allowing a trial link there is several conserns. One is connectivity, another is who is staff and a third is "is this server needed, will it get a userbase?".
groop wrote:If a server passes the initial trial period, why would it be extended? this is something new to me.. as almost every server that passes a trial. is now PERMANENT. So, why the extension for irc.ac.za? sounds like efnet politics to me as this is totaly out of the norm. I think irc.ac.za has proven itself beyond EFNet expectations. EFNet polictics ensures my comment on this matter to be forwarded to /dev/null/. However, i think it's unfair and bias to say the least. The server has proven to be stable.. as for the routing committee, i'm ashamed to say.. has not.
`

The trial was extended because at the time there wasnt agreement that it had passed initial trial. So the Eu admin community wanted to extend the trial period to give it some more time to handle some of the conserns it had.

And to play the devils advocate here, how can you say the server "has proven itself beyond efnet expectation" when it right now has 28 users after beeing linked for more then half a year? Personally (and this is my opinion) i dont mind it beeing here, as it covers a new region, but saying the server is the glue that keeps efnet together ...
groop wrote:All on the routing committee.. do you duty to do whats best for EFNet. My home network. we need stable servers and irc.ac.za has proved more than stable and effective beside being the 1st .za server in the history of efnet.
Okay, another lesson in how efnet works mr. 10 years experience... EU doesnt have a routing committee, it has serverbased votes on all mathers meaning every server has one vote no mather how big it is and how many admins it has. And irc.ac.za has the same even tho its the smallest client server EFnet has.
groop wrote:rethink you politics and get the routing board to come to their senses. do whats right and give irc.ac.za what they derserve. a full unconditional link!

Sincerely,

groop
William S. gregory
#EFNet
They have a full unconditional link today. They got that after an extended trial which decided if they were to be delinked or to stay. And EU allowed them the link, didnt they?
Last edited by Hardy on Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
-- Hardy
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http://www.efnet.org admin/staff
Hardy
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Postby Hardy » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:18 am

groop wrote:yes.. this information has come str8 from the horses mouth.. and from what i picked up out this conversation.. nothing outta the norm has happened.. except for this extention. i for one.. couldn't possibly see why an extention would be put in order, after the trial was over. IF the staff/admin/server done something wrong within the trial period. would that not be a reason to vote no after the trial. even tho this wasn't said by anyone from irc.ca.za.. i feel irc.ca.za is now a victom of EFNet politics. how, when.. why, i couldn't guess as i am not on the routing board. but.. something defintily sounds fishy. i know, nothing can be done about it.. as it's up to the routing committee.

1) the server has PROVEN to be stable
2) all admins/opers have shown complete hospitality to users
3) and it's the 1st *.za server ever
4) /luser count is substantial

now tell me why? again.. it's EFNet politics.. plain and simple.
someones looked at one of the members incorrectly and as a result.. well, this is it. an extenstion for absolutly no reason.

that was metaphore about the "looking at someone incorrectly"

somthing isn't right about this process.. plain and simple

groop
William S. Gregory
#EFnet
Straight from the horses mouth? I guess that means one of their two administrators?

I would like to add, that its not a right to link an efnet server. EFnet admins have a majority vote on all newlinks/delinks/mathers on efnet. EU handles EU links, CA canadian links and US american links.. and we have a global voting for global mathers.

When someone applies the admin community sits together and consider the application and if EFnet will benefit from the server, something that wasnt obvious with irc.ac.za when it applied. It was given a trial where there was some conserns so the trial was extended to give irc.ac.za an extra chance.

Again, it has right now 28 users on a 83k network so i`m sure that most people who doesnt have a personal intrest in the server like you obvious have see why EFnet was doubting if the server was needed.
-- Hardy
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Services Administrator
http://www.efnet.org admin/staff
groop
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Postby groop » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:26 am

Thank Hardy.. you have cleared up some issues about this.

but i honestly believe, after a trial has passed. that should be it.

a YES or NO. simple.

as for the users count. they have closed i:lines and if they were to open them up, you as well as i would see a great difference in the user level.

again.. i just think it's unfair for a stable server to have to go through this.

they hand out no spoofs
their opers are VERY curtious
and there uptime and stability to this network is a advantage some BIG servers do without.

again.. it's unfair

Thank Hardy to your curtious approach! i appreciate it
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password = "asifiwould";
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Hardy
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Postby Hardy » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:35 am

groop wrote:Thank Hardy.. you have cleared up some issues about this.

but i honestly believe, after a trial has passed. that should be it.

a YES or NO. simple.
Well, if we had a "hard limit that couldnt be changed" its a high chance irc.ac.za wouldnt be here today, so isnt it better that EFnet gets a longer time to decide if in doubt? In irc.ac.za`s case it was for their benefit. In 90% of the links it is decided right after the initial trial, but in a few "on the edge" cases we simply need more time.
groop wrote:as for the users count. they have closed i:lines and if they were to open them up, you as well as i would see a great difference in the user level.

again.. i just think it's unfair for a stable server to have to go through this.
This is where most of the discussion on eu-efnet was also. Because irc.ac.za does not match the minimum requirements for a link to EU, so if it was to apply as a "global open server" it wouldnt even go to vote, and not get a trial. So this is again EU-Efnet stretching to give a new region a chance on this network, but there has been set some special conditions. These conditions are again why this server got a permlink.
groop wrote:they hand out no spoofs
their opers are VERY curtious
and there uptime and stability to this network is a advantage some BIG servers do without.

again.. it's unfair

Thank Hardy to your curtious approach! i appreciate it
I agree, its a stable server for .za clients, and thats how we like it to be, and why EU wants it to remain closed for their clients only. EU doesnt "need" it to be a open server so instead they want it to be a regional server, like it has been linked as.

When it comes to their spoof policy and they having some decent staff, no one is arguing that.. But it doesnt make a diffrence in their link restrictions which their primary admin agreed to when reciving the perm link. It is the server thats linked for what its worth, not their staff even tho a server having a decent staff is important for the network.

:)
-- Hardy
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groop
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Postby groop » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:49 am

Quote from Hardy;
This is where most of the discussion on eu-efnet was also. Because irc.ac.za does not match the minimum requirements for a link to EU, so if it was to apply as a "global open server" it wouldnt even go to vote, and not get a trial.
End of quote

so, if they were to open their i:lines to .uk and surrounding domains for that area, this would be a good thing for them?

just curios.

oh.. and Hardy.. Thank you for the time on this subject. i appreciate.
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Hardy
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Postby Hardy » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:15 am

groop wrote:Quote from Hardy;
This is where most of the discussion on eu-efnet was also. Because irc.ac.za does not match the minimum requirements for a link to EU, so if it was to apply as a "global open server" it wouldnt even go to vote, and not get a trial.
End of quote

so, if they were to open their i:lines to .uk and surrounding domains for that area, this would be a good thing for them?

just curios.

oh.. and Hardy.. Thank you for the time on this subject. i appreciate.
They arent allowed to open ilines now due to restrictions set when they got permlink, but they could ask for a vote on it and majority would decide if this policy is to be modified.

Personally i think the rest of europe has alot of good connected servers that is way faster for any users in europe to use, while .za is in south africa.. so why not let it be a south african server only, where it has good connectivity. The idea behind allowing irc.ac.za to link is to have coverage from a growing country internet wis, in hope that some of the .za users who wants to irc might do so on efnet. As global transit costs and most isp`s down there have bandwith restrictions on it, irc.ac.za was a local and "cost free" alternative to connect to a global network of people.

And its my pleasure, i like to discuss efnet politics for some wierd reason.. :)
-- Hardy
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groop
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Postby groop » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:31 am

understood. you dah man Hardy.

i have a better insight now on this issue. i still feel it's a bit unfair, but again.. i understand some points brought up
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