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Mouse
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:27 am

Postby Mouse » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:49 pm

what about masking your own hosts?
I would like to see efnet to have option of let users to mask their hosts.
/mode <mynickname> +x on some other irc networks.
Last edited by Mouse on Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4525
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

efnet

Postby 4525 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:50 pm

Ok I have been on Efnet since about 92-93 , I have stayed on Efnet all this time (Except my prison time, when my internet went down :( ) , from the original #warezgods (dead chan now) , to #computers , and now just a regular in #softmods and #bristol , I dont have any general complaints, although recently a rise in spam, ddos and flood attacks is becoming a reason to leave... The channel BANLISTS are not big enough this could counteract some of the major spam, by allowing a channel a massive ban list 100-200, so that people can be banned and STAY banned :) not until the next bnc/drone/clone/proxy comes along !
I wont leave efnet as over the years have met peeps on here and have been handy to know, plus some of the channels on here are very dedicated and for that i respect them, they cant be found elsewhere,,,,,
A chanserv is a good idea and has my vote....
However i dont believe a nickserv would be at this time as everyone could register other peoples nicknames upon implementation....
Hostmasking is a very cool option, and certainly even tho of course you can find hosts (via dcc etc...) i think should only be offered to registered users (with some efnet reg service :S) so probably means nickserve, (which i dont agree with).
I think to get people over to efnet FROM OTHER NETWORKS, you need to provide the services they request from other networks, such as nickserv, chanserv and host masking, that is why they use other services, not the biggest and the best ;)
I think to get people on IRC to efnet is a waste of time, #help #mirc and #n00b would be inundated with questions , and nowadays people want I.M. Webcams and all the flashy things that come with it.... why type a command to send files when u can hit a button kinda mentality...
Keep up the good work efnet, lets hope that you intitate some type of VOTE system and keep it up for at least 10 weeks before any changes kick in...
Anyways my next court case is 9th Jan so i may not be around to see the changes :S:S:S:S
contact me on irc for a general chat, i hope m.o helpz
4526
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4526 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:50 pm

Not much to really change in my opinion, been on efnet since 89/90.

One thing would be nice is simple host mangling, just to prevent the kiddies from attacking people.

The nickfix(maybe) really does sound like a good idea, probly one of the greatest additions you can add to efnet..

Other than that I love the old style network stuff without all the fancy mancy things.
Last edited by 4526 on Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
3719
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 3719 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:51 pm

Personally, I wouldn't really change anything about efnet. I think it works fine. You can disagree all you want, but I've really had no trouble with anything for years.

The only thing that really needs to go is individual ego issues, and the way people act like it's highschool. This isn't something that can really be addressed at a server level.
4527
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: mostly good

Postby 4527 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:08 am

shea241 wrote:One thing I often wish for is a flag for muting users, sort of the opposite of voice. Currently the easiest way to do this sort of thing is to maintain a moderated channel where everyone is normally voiced until devoiced, which is pretty ugly.


Unless you have bots that is kicking users that gets moded +b (something they shouldn't do, because whom ever is setting mode +b should kick) -- You can just place your "I hate you, STFU"-users with +b.

A channel mode +b on a user, without kicking him/her is (at least on Undernet) a way to mute the person.

/kill me if I'm wrong ;-)
4527
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4527 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:25 am

Vortexia wrote:I'd like to post another question, how many of you believe that efnet needs to change, and how many of you are on efnet because its the way IRC was before, and the way you believe it should stay in the future.

How many of you believe there need to be new features, versus how many believe in leaving things alone?

Curious to see the comments!

Vortexia/Symmetria


I actually agree on this one. EFNet is how IRC was suppose to be, or somewhat still is as it was in 1989(-88) when it all started out. Good old RFC1459.
Of course there has been a good set of new functions - like +I/+e and Chanfix, but else I believe the IRCd-code has what it takes.
What IRC needs (sadly) is clients with webcam support if you wanna attrack more people back on IRC from IM-clients.
We who like the idea of finding a channel and starting a conversation and getting new friends over it - We like IRC as it is. IRC is the best one-to-many chat there is, and EFNet is the best.

Speaking of NICKLEN .. Undernet turned to 12 .. DALNet has 32 .. EFNet could thing like Undernet on this one. If really needed.

There was a function I would love to see on Undernet IRCu - that might could be implemented on EFNet's Hybrid first ... And probably win users on ...
Some kind of network-wide surveillance on channel banlist or some other way of detecting unwanted users/bots/drones.
If xx-channels has the same banmask set, and the channel has a given mode (+B if not taken?) - the given banmask could be given a G-line to stop it from attacking other channels.
I mean .. If i.e. 20+ channels has *!~fefsfes@i.fuck.whores.and.i.am.a.drone.com banned ... this user would have network wide ban and not be able to use efnet anymore .. of course this can't be too general - but it could be a way to force drones and unwanted stuff of IRC. Of course the channels that has the ban set need to be like 10+ users, and preferably not contain more than one equal user to stop 10 people from banning whoever they want.
4527
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4527 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:53 am

Wohali wrote:If you feel like it, include or discuss any of the following:

  • How long you have been on EFnet
  • Why you are still on EFnet (or why did you leave)
  • What would keep you from leaving
  • What would make you leave EFnet (if implemented)
  • (new) What do you think would help attract more people to EFnet?



  • Since 1997, except a few years around 2000-2001 (before I really got the hang of BitchX and irssi - running multiple networks in one client)
  • Not really sure. I feel EFNet is old school, and a still find friends or new friends here. Mostly on channels like #norge though. I like old school things btw. Always wondered if I should do a website like I did them in 1998 with HTML Wilbur (3.2) - Who cares? :p
  • What would keep me from leaving ... Not really sure. I've added a few points allready in a few post above. After reading trought the thread so far, I agree that hostmasking/spoofs could be fun - but I wouldn't used it. I have a shell and "hide" there. With my nick, I don't need NICKLEN either. Keeping as close to RFC1459 as possible, as you are still doing (except chanfix maybe) - would keep me from leaving.
  • Services. I like Chanfix, or the concept of it, but I would leave if I saw something like NickServ, ChanServ (X), or such appeared. I would probably also leave if EFNet got more a like Quakenet/DalNet/Undernet. I like EFNet because it's as IRC was to be, and EFNet is quite different just because of it... IRC has always been anarchy - and some users complaints about abusive OPERS. I think it's neat - It's like if time has been standing still for a decade - actually almost two decades now.
  • Too bad if I have to say all those things that would make me leave EFNet on the topic of what would attract more people. I believe if you try to get 2000 new people by adding a new feature or service, you might end up loosing 2000 that has been here since the network was born.
    As mentioned earlier by me (in another post). I believe the only thing that could attract more people to IRC generally - is to compete with IM-clients, and that is the work of clients. We already have DCC, and the DCC-protocol could probably easily be used to extend mIRC to have webcam-support. And saddly that would probably attract more people on to IRC.



/EOMT (End Of My Thoughts)

Edit: Spell checks
4497
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Spam bots & other animal droppings

Postby 4497 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:03 am

From the point of view of a large channel administrator the biggest annoyance is by far the spam bots. Several times a year we get inundated by spammers for anywhere from a few weeks to a couple months. In these cases the biggest boon would be a larger banlist. Often these attacks are from a large number of infected hosts and it quickly fills the banlist. We also usually wrote pattern recognition scripts to catch new spammers before much damage can be done. Other then a larger banlist a clear method of communication to opers would be beneficial. We currently have a few opers as ops, however, often little is done on the server side of the equation.

In addition the post discussing muting users caught my eye. We once implemented a muted channel policy that was extremely effective in curtailing the spammers. Sadly it also caused a lot of people to leave who didn't get voice quickly enough. I often use +m as a deterrent to trolls and idiots, however, muting the user would be FAR more effective in a channel our size. Other methods of implementation would be a channel mode that provides a +v mode to all new joiners to a moderated channel.

It would also be nice to have more control over who can /notice and such once already in a channel. Many spammers utilize /notice instead of speaking.

Along the lines of this forum a place to submit spammers and infected hosts to a centralized DB where perhaps more people can figure out how these hosts are infected or how to notify the owners of these machines would be greatly beneficial. I know several people who would be more then happy to provide coding/hosting for a project such as this and I'm sure many other posters do as well. We attempted this without the support of the EFNet staff and it was of little use, with the support I believe it would be widely used and very helpful.

I'll post a few more ideas later, I want to leave the point of this post the spamming problem.

-GW
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Pills
Forum Admin
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Location: Long Island, NY
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Postby Pills » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:15 am

[*] How long you have been on EFnet
Since January 27, 1992. I have no idea why I know this date; I figured it out once long ago. Yay for 15 years.

[*] Why you are still on EFnet (or why did you leave)
Still? I'm actually rarely active on IRC now (although I'm on all the time after work), and mostly keep to chans that my personal real-life friends are on, and my wife, and my daughter's godmother...

Oh, yeah, I also have this nasty habit of deleting spam posts from this forum and changing passwords and stuff. ;)

[*] What would keep you from leaving
Meh, I ain't going nowhere. ;)

[*] What would make you leave EFnet (if implemented)
Nothing. Not that I help admin a server or anything. ;)

[*] (new) What do you think would help attract more people to EFnet?

Some people think that anything we do will make us lose users. I think there is some wiggle room; I don't think we had many people leave after CHANFIX. I doubt something that makes life easier for users will make people leave.

I'm a little amused by the "FREEDOM" people versus the complaints about spammers and flooders. You can't have it both ways. Either we have to be a little invasive, or you're going to get spammed and flooded. As it is, a LOT of those things are automated now between dronemons, spamtraps, etc. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

As far as attracting people, whatever can be done to help make the user experience easier and more streamlined will likely do it. We can only do so much to make the user experience a good one within our pre-set limitations.
admin, irc.umich.edu
oper, irc.servercentral.net
plat0nic
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby plat0nic » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:26 am

lazy..

[plat0nic] I have an idea.. how about a points system where spammers and other naughty people can be klined by majority vote automatically..

[plat0nic] Lets say there's an EFnet bot, users can do /msg klinebot user <mandatory>. The bot would then send back a random string that you have to send back to the bot to verify you're a real person.

[plat0nic] After the first "point", if after a set time the accused accumulates enough points, they're kllined from the server. This would take the load off opers, and especially helpful in cases where you can't find an oper, and some host continues to be disruptive.

[@doug] plat0nic: sort of like the craigslist flagging system.

[@strtok] and the kline couldn't be automatic, it'd have to be reviewed by someone

[plat0nic] I mean there *has* to be a way to make something less prone to abuse, but I just wanted to get the basic idea across

[@strtok] like doug says, a flagging system
4531
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4531 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:48 am

2 things i would love to see implimented on EFNeT

NickServ would be a great feature to be added if it's not already been mentioned :)
I've had a few problems with people being banned from channels i'm opped in and just to get back at you they setup bots to take your nick if you timeout or your BNC resets , and as this is something IRC Ops won't do anything about then NickServ would be a great alternative to prevent it from the start.

Half-Op capability would be a nice addition also.

Other than that i think EFNet is great , thanx :)
4534
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4534 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:27 am

ircing since '96.

Masked hostnames.
Just for being an op in the wrong channel, kickbanning the wrong little punk with a botnet up his sleeve, hell, idling at the same time as another little troll punk gets kicked from a channel...

"You deserved it" -- Er, no.

A +x would be a godsend to a number of users. Lets hash their hostname with a secret seed. There are solutions out there to still keep accountability for users with hostmasks but protect others. There are algorithms already in place on established networks that keep users accountable for their actions (k/b) but protect them from port scanning, ddosing, and other directed IP attacks. (modem-124.52.3.52-dhcp-client.isp.com -> modem-fGwman2ea-dhcp-client@isp.com or whatever)

There's a reason I'm hiding behind eggdrops to do my bans for me, and it's the little shits with their packet botnets.

<strong> on +x or similar.
4533
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4533 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:40 am

[*] How long you have been on EFnet
On IRC, since 1996. On EFnet since 2000-2001 maybe

[*] Why you are still on EFnet (or why did you leave)
This network give me a reason to use a BNC. On others networks with nick service it doesn't have any utility

[*] What would keep you from leaving
Why leave? EFnet is a nice network

[*] What would make you leave EFnet (if implemented)
/NickServ, /ChanServ, /MemoServ.. I have all this *features* on others networks. So there are no motives to use EFnet if it become like others IRC networks.

[*] (new) What do you think would help attract more people to EFnet?
ting wrote:I actually agree on this one. EFNet is how IRC was suppose to be, or somewhat still is as it was in 1989(-88) when it all started out. Good old RFC1459.
Of course there has been a good set of new functions - like +I/+e and Chanfix, but else I believe the IRCd-code has what it takes.
What IRC needs (sadly) is clients with webcam support if you wanna attrack more people back on IRC from IM-clients.
We who like the idea of finding a channel and starting a conversation and getting new friends over it - We like IRC as it is. IRC is the best one-to-many chat there is, and EFNet is the best.

The main attraction on EFnet is that follows the original RFC1459. I think that implements must be make on clients, not on servers, like colors font, it was implemented in mIRC (IRC client) and not in server. About video client, really, if IRC clients support voice and video chat, it has a great chance to take back some users from IM networks to IRC. DCC Video sounds nice.
4535
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4535 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:43 am

edit: these quote tags take up a lot of space; tried to compress this.
If you could improve anything on EFnet, what would it be? could be a new usermode, a channel mode, a feature...
There are advantages and disadvantages to services like nickserv, chanserv etc; but I think overall they would benefit EFNet as long as they weren't made MANDATORY. Same goes for usermodes like halfop.
How long you have been on EFnet
Too long :)
Why you are still on EFnet (or why did you leave)
Simply because the channels I like are on EFnet.
What would keep you from leaving
As long as the channels I like remain here, I'll remain here.
What would make you leave EFnet (if implemented)
It would have to be something pretty extreme to send me away; and that sort of thing that would cause my channels of choice to leave before I did it of my own volition.
What do you think would help attract more people to EFnet?
Attracting people to IRC is difficult in the first place; people usually use forums like this or multi-user IM systems. I'd guess the most common reason people go on IRC is for free files, and YOU GUYS have nothing to do with that, right? Next most common reason would be for a quick-fix: getting a question answered etc, the type of folks you see join/part within an hour ;)
4540
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Postby 4540 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:02 am

Wohali wrote:If you feel like it, include or discuss any of the following:

  • How long you have been on EFnet
  • Why you are still on EFnet (or why did you leave)
  • What would keep you from leaving
  • What would make you leave EFnet (if implemented)
  • (new) What do you think would help attract more people to EFnet?


well, the network (as such) has rather settled down a bit over the years. nothing like the heady times before (or after) the "great split" (yeah, I've been around that long).

to answer the questions in order:
1. since late 1992 (IRC in general)
2. I have a few friends here and some places I am known in
3. I'll leave when I get tired. so far, I'm not tired. :)
4. an extreme event (greater than the "great split")
5. someone else mentioned files and sharing. personally, those attract trouble with a capital "T"! tech support is a viable alternative and it shouldn't be hard to have an irc java implimentation built into so IM clients as well. the major problem with IRC is that its old and going past its prime. it is going to be like gopher and archie (and vernonica) in the next few years.

some of us old greybeards still remember when irc was done via a telnet session to a server (no irc clients, just telnet). those days are long since past. However, there is VoIP and videophone. perhaps a video version of irc (thats going to take a bit of work to implement). even a voice equivalent of this would work well, especially fopr those of us who happen to be blind (such as I).

more things to think about though....

Maji De` Technica

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